Grainfather clone

[andrei cotiga]

Hi all, I'm new around here and new to the brewing community in general.

I've brewed some beers starting with kit to extract to mini-mash and now an allgrain BIAB split into two separate brew days (pot not large enough). Now, no longer happy with cloning beers I like, I decided to clone to Grainfather. This post will basically attempt to keep track of my development and if something useful awaits at the end of the road it will hopefully inspire other people.

Rather then attaching links to the items I bought/or will buy I will attach the pictures. Items change on Trademe and Ebay, but having a picture allows for later comparison.

So far I have just ordered the following:

1. Trademe 38l hot water urn - 109$ + delivery. I have yet to receive it. I saw somewhere on this forum that it's actually only 30L. I guess I'll see, but even the Grainfather is about the same (by my calculations), so i guess it will be right. I'm not a big fan of big beers so the 9kg grain limit the grainfather has will more than suffice.

2. Ebay Sestos PID controller with SSD relay for 40A - 47.29AUD = 54.55$ RX-100 models which are cheaper are supposedly problematic when it comes to the setup and apparently not all of them support the PT100 probes. Not sure if that's a problem but most guys recommend the PT100 and not the default K probes. I splashed and decided to go for the Sestos.

3. Ebay PT100 probe - 6.18AUD - 7.13NZD. This is quite a long one (I don't know exactly why I wanted it so long). 2m the cable and 100mm the probe. Or at least this is what I understood from the description. i guess I'll see when I receive it.

4. Ebay Silicone tube - 2metres of clear silicone tube. 8mm ID with 10mm ED. 4.75NZD

5. Ebay 12V hot water pump. 35.5 NZD.

Total so far = 228.93@

Other items I will need:

A sheet of stainless to roll into a basket with an inverted collander. All of them will be riveted together. - estimated 50$

A 12V adapter - will get something from EcoShop for max 5$

A box to keep all bits together. EcoShop again. Say 15$

A copper coil to make a chiller. Don't know yet but happy to combine with someone else from the Canterbury region for one. Worst case scenario get a 60$ copper tube of 6m of 1/2 inch, flatten it a bit and then roll it to make a chiller.

Other bits and pieces, items I may have forgotten now - 40$.

Total estimated of stuff remaining - 170$

Estimated TOTAL = 400$

That's without my priceless time :)

Guess will see. As I receve more items and start working on the thing I'll post more pictures, electric schemes and such.

Cheers and nice to have met you.

[Kevin Sharp]

That's curious. I bought a 38L urn off TM that is 38L. I regularly do 33L boils in it - with anti-foam drops on standby. The seller was gtmall. They don't seem to have them at the moment, but it might be worth enquiring. I fitted it with a weldless ball valve and it's been fantastic. I use it as the HLT during the mash and the kettle for the boil. I haven't felt the need to fit a controller to it. Turned up full it manages a steady 4 to 5 litre/hour boil off. I've not had any scorching on the element and there's no corrosion so far.

The one thing to watch out for though is that they do have a 3.5kW element, so they pull in region of 15 amps. Obviously this will overload a 10A socket, but only the socket since the wiring behind it will be 20A. I've not had a socket get warm, but your insurance company might get picky in the event of a fire.

[Dave]

That is curious.... My 48l (really a 38) was from gtmall last year (2kw element) . Maybe they had enough complaints from people who had not been warned and ended up with smaller units. However shipping 3.5kw elements with a 10 amp plug fitted I think could land them in legal trouble...

[andrei cotiga]

Ok. So apparently the manufacturer of this urn like to lie in factors of ten. The urn is 28 not 38 liters and although on the box it says 2800W, the heating element is a double 900W, so 1800W.

Also, the gradations on the sight tube appear to be completely random. The only one which actually corresponded was the 20L mark but I suspect it was by chance. The other markings are all over the place, so I did my own markings. I would feel comfortable bringing 26 maaaaaybe 27L to a boil but wouldn't go further than that. 28L is the maximum.

Very flimsy but was ok. Savebarn didn't have the bucket I was after so bought the 36$ one from Mitre10. Also bought three M6x40 bolts and six M6 nuts, all S/S. Also added were:

- 2m extension cord (for taking cables of it - workes out cheaper to buy a cord than cable by meter);

- 20A connector strip

and from Jaycar (that's because I haven't thought of it and forgot to order from eBay):

- 220V 15A rocker switch; 3 of them in green, red and blue. Apparently I want to have a disco next to where I brew in case I want to break into dance after each hop addition;

- some connector spades to go into the switches.

Total today (Mitre10 + Jaycar): 65$

Tptal so far: 294$

Today I also got the silicone hose. Good.

Basically 15 to 55 C in 26 minutes. 55 to 67 in 7:20 minutes. 67 to 75 in 7 minutes. 75 to full boil 18 minutes. 15 to full boil 58 minutes. Tell me if you want and I can attach a full trend chart.

Images are: urn deformed by me to fit bucket with bucket inside, heating element, 26L full

Another interesting couple of notes:

- the urn was quite dirty. I dismantled the heating element and washed everything. Plenty of dust of origin unknown everywhere.

- the element as it can be seen in the picture is actually made of two 900W elements soldered together. If one is so inclined, they could be split so 900 or 1800W could be chosen.

[Andrew Graham]

What volume of water did you use in your heating tests?

[andrei cotiga]

26L. It's expected that 55 to 67 and 67 to 75 to take longer with grains in due to the increased mass.

The PID will need to go through an Auto Setup in order to calculate how much power it needs to put in in order to get it up in temperature a certain amount. Most people do it only with water and then change some parameters during the mash. i plan on going to Bin Inn and buying the cheapest grain or bean stuff they have there and do the auto setup with a better estimation of mass. Anyway, details about that when it will be done.

[Andrew Graham]

By my calculations you do indeed have 2800W. At 1800W it would have taken closer to 40 minutes to heat 26L by 40 degC.

[andrei cotiga]

When I'll do the circuits I'll put an amp meter to it. The cord did get warm. The socket did not.

[mattd2]

What is the thing in the middle of the elements? the one with red, blue and white wires attached to it?

[Andrew Graham]

That would be a thermal fuse to prevent damage if you boil dry

[andrei cotiga]

Yeap. That's the one. It cuts out the Neutral wire while the thermostat cuts the Live one.

A schematic of the electrics and electronics as I will fit them will follow.

[andrei cotiga]

A very productive weekend. 

I managed to fit all the parts in the bottom of the urn as shown in the pictures. I had a trial run and I didn't have any melted wires or things like that. Will keen an eye on it for a while anyway though.

Some pictures attached for reference of the semi-finished product. I will come back later today or tomorrow with the electric scheme.

I still need to run the Auto setup of the PID and buy a SPDT switch to by-pass the PID for full boil.

[andrei cotiga]

And a couple of other images.