Electric Brewing - BIAB Options

[Dene McDonald]

I’ve been brewing with Kit and Kilo for just over a year now having made around 10 batches and while it’s getting better every time I can’t seem to shake that home brew taste that you get when using a “brew enhancer”. So I’ve been doing a bit of research and decided that BIAB is the route for me as it’s low cost, easy to learn, quick cleanup etc… I’m sure you’re all aware of the benefits of BIAB.

I’ve priced up all of the equipment I need for a gas setup and while it’s only the $50 for a pot and $80 for a burner it’s a bit of work on brew day to set it all up. I also can’t do it when it’s wet, windy or cold (which is all the time in Dunedin) as I don’t have a garage or shed.

So as an alternative to gas I’ve decided that an electric brewery is the right option for me. It’s easy to setup, I can do it inside, there’s no worries of running out of gas or having to get gas… the list goes on!

I’ve narrowed it down to two options:

A cheap URN

http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/retail-hospitali...

Brew Pot and Element

http://www.trademe.co.nz/home-living/kitchen/pots-pans-bakeware/pot...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/home-living/food-beverage/other-beverages/...

So what I want to know is…

Urn

Does anyone own one of these urns and are they reliable? Would I be able to get a good boil going in it, or I there a safety cut out that stops boiling? If the element blows is it easy to replace or is it a proprietary element fixed into the system?

Pot system

Can anyone comment on doing this? Is it as easy as drilling a hole and screwing it into the pot (keep in mind that I am a complete novice and have no DIY skills at all)?  

Sorry about all the questions but this is my foray into the world of BIAB/All grain! The urn idea seems great as I can set it to my mash temperature and walk away, whereas the pot may need some heat applied from time to time. But if the element dies in the pot I can just swap it out, and the urn would need replaced!

[Mike]

Great thread with lots of information on these urns, I've been waiting for one to pop up secondhand for $100 like the one on here went for, great price. Can't really justify the $265 pricetag at the moment, in saying that - for a fully self contained indoor BIAB system it's a steal. 

Have been looking at Chinese ones also, so far these are the best I've found in terms of price, postage and size for anyone interested: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Stainless-steel-electric-heating-ket... NZD $94 to your door (after a month or so :P)

Some things to note about buying from China for people unaware:

-Actual internal volumes on these Urns are lower, 18L =13L 28L=19.6 38L = 26L 48L=34L In saying that 34L is plenty for 20-23L BIAB, esp with a small sparge rinse.

-Supposedly it takes 1 hour and 35mins to boil a full 38L( 26L) and 48L (34L) kettle, 18(13) and 28L(19) take 35mins to boil - so it sounds like similar elements in both. Not sure what those times are boiling from (0C, 10C, 20C etc), but an hour and a half from tap seems comparable with the results posted here. Obviously you can start with warm tap water out of your home hot water cylinder plus a few boiling jugs if you like to get it started faster.

-Postage is free through China Post. The 38L(actual 26.6L) Urns go on trademe for 99 reserve/140 buy now and the sellers still make a profit.

-If you can't be bothered dealing with slow and potentially unreliable chinese postal services (15-34 days), trademe might be easier...however the biggest ones aren't on there and 26L is a bit small for BIAB IMO, you'd want the biggest one. Make a fine HLT though. http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/retail-hospitali.... 

-The Chinese company people are notoriously difficult to deal with. A friend in our brewing club asked for a 38L (assuming it was, actually, 38L). They had run out of the 38L urns but were happy to make the transaction and sent an 18L(13L) with a note saying they had ran out of 38L ones...so now he has to sell that one. I think they worked out something in the end but the lesson is - be absolutely clear with what you want and don't want, English is very much lacking. Correspond with them and sort it explicitly before buying (the site lets you do this easily if you signup).

If you've read all that and you're still keen, it's about as good a deal as you're gonna get on a 34L HLT/BIAB system, short of converting a dumped hot water cylinder :P (these make great pot stills, by the by - converted HWC and hot water urns - just cut out the top and add water jacketed copper pipe. Commercial one http://www.trademe.co.nz/home-living/lifestyle/other/auction-635394... no reason they can't pull double duty either)

[Grant R Baker]

Wow.. great write up.

That deserves to go into the Library......!!!!

[Andrew Graham]

I purchased what was advertised as a 38L urn from Trademe and ended up receiving the 48L model (actual volume about 34L). It had been rewired locally with a 10A cord. The wiring was very poor so I had to fix that.

Bigger issue is the element was 3kW. Great because it means a faster boil but technically needs a 15A plug and socket. Important to check this if you are looking at one of the cheap Chinese ones. Nothing worse than melting a power point or burning down your house!

[Mike]

Ah cheers for that info Andrew. If that's the case I wonder if the other trademe ones are actually that size? Did you replace the plug and socket or is it just something you have to be aware of?

[Andrew Graham]

I have only used it once and haven't replaced the plug or had a 15A socket installed yet. One day I will get an electrician in to install a new socket in my brew cupboard but for now I will just keep a close eye on things. I did note the wall around the power point was getting abnormally warm.

[Matt Dillon]

Hi guys. I'm relatively new to BIAB, just 4 under my belt so far. Here's my experience to date...

I purchased a Birko 40L hot water urn. It wasn't cheap at $380 but I had heard that the Chinese ones can burn out so I figured I'd pay the extra for something that lasts. The model I got is 10 Amps, but you can get a 15 Amp version.

I replaced the tap with a ball valve and some food grade tubing. I'm happy to say there've been no leaks.

The element in the urn is exposed, so to protect the bag I place a regular colander upside down over the element. It fits perfectly snug which is great. I've also wrapped the urn with some leftover insulation matting.

Getting water up to 66C or thereabouts takes about half an hour from memory. I start with 30-35L of water. Once I've mashed in I leave the thermostat at 66C and check the temperature every 15 mins or so. I also wrap it all up with a couple of old blankets. I had been concerned about leaving the thermostat on could cause problems, but with the extra blankets the power only comes on a couple of times for just a minute or two.

When the bag comes out I turn the power to full and let the bag drip into the urn, giving it a good squeeze as it cools down. Getting the urn up to boil is slow - it takes about 45 minutes. 

With the lid off the urn is at a low boil. I recently learned that you need to leave the lid off in order to boil off DMS (Dimethyl Sulfide). There's info here: http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/04/10/dimethyl-sulfides-dms-in-home-... about that. I had been keeping the lid about halfway over the urn to get a good boil going.

However, I have been a little worried that the boil is still not vigorous enough so I've recently purchased a 2400W portable immersion element that I'll place in to the urn as well. 4800W should be plenty! I hope I don't blow any fuses in the house.

Finally, I use a copper pipe chiller that I got off trademe to cool the wort after the boil. 

Cheers
Matt

[Mike]

Another thing you can do it cut a round hole in your boil kettle lid like this: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zsrxfgPumbc/UUVL4D0OlrI/AAAAAAAAARo/w-ZHD... http://banksbrewing.blogspot.co.nz/2013/03/kereru-brewing-100l-pilo... Or find another lid and do that to it - this mimics boil kettles in pro breweries and will help your boil. You can leave it on while getting up to boil and boiling and DMS will escape fine, that plus the extra element should cut your times in half. You can add tags to the removed bit so you can put it back on during mash and getting up to boil if you like.

.

[Matt Dillon]

Thanks for the pointers Mike. I didn't know how open the kettle needed to be. I'll try to rig something up for the next brew. Cheers.

[Hayden Baxter]

I'm using something similar. This http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/retail-hospitali...

It does take a while to heat up though but when I set it to 110C it boils nicely

[Dene McDonald]

Bargain of the day:

Grab One

Pay $69 for a 14L urn.
Pay $79 for a 22L urn.
Pay $89 for a 28L urn.
Pay $109 for a 48L urn. 

http://www.grabone.co.nz/dunedin-invercargill/hot-water-urn-14l

[Matt Dillon]

You could always get one of these: http://morebeer.com/products/braumeister-20l.html

You can even get a decorative copper hood!

[Des Ross]

Unfortunately Morebeer will not export Speidel products to New Zealand.