Cider advice needed...

[Slingshot]

Hi all, next weekend I'm going to have a crack at making apple feijoa cider.

Picked up 30ish Kgs of braeburm apples today (50 cents/kg), and have bags of feijoas in the freezer ready to be juiced.

So, after stacks of research on the net I still have a couple of questions.This is the plan at the moment - what am I missing? Anything I should be doing differently?

- Mix the Feijoa & Apple juice to taste, I'm thinking the feijoa taste will need to be pretty strong to be able to taste it in the finished product.

- Take a SG reading - what should it start at? Similar to wine?

- If the SG needs to be increased, should I use normal sugar, brown sugar, brewing sugar, honey???

- Do I need to worry about the Ph levels?

- Kill wild yeasts with campden tablets

- Pitch in the yeast - going to use champagne yeast of some description (any recommendations?)

- Rack it into a second fermenter at some stage...at what point should I do this?  After a week or so?

- If it's too dry prior to bottling, what should I use to sweeten it?

- Bottle it :)  I want it fizzy, will my ABC beer bottles be strong enough?  I was originally going to use sparkling wine bottles but have just realised they use a bigger crown cap - can you use crown caps without the proper sized capped?

Thanks,

John

[Ralph]

It is that time of the year and there has been a fair bit of discussion on cider here http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/forum/topics/the-making-cider-thread

This site here has pretty much all you need to know about cider http://www.cider.org.uk/frameset.htm

My opinion on your questions.

- Mix the Feijoa & Apple juice to taste, I'm thinking the feijoa taste will need to be pretty strong to be able to taste it in the finished product.

This sounds like a good plan to me. The other way to do it might be to ferment the 2 juices separately and mix them to taste after they are brewed.

- Take a SG reading - what should it start at? Similar to wine?

SG should be above 1.045. If it is below this I would consider adding some sort of sugar.  With Braeburn apples I would think you would be above this level.

- If the SG needs to be increased, should I use normal sugar, brown sugar, brewing sugar, honey???

Standard sugar or dextrose (brewing sugar) would probably add the least other flavours to the cider. Brown sugar or honey may add flavours of their own.

- Do I need to worry about the Ph levels?

Using braeburn I would think the pH will not be very low as being an eating apple they are likely to have a bunch more sugar than acid in them. There will be hardly any tannins either. Eating apples often do not make interesting cider, which is why many people add cooking and crab apples to their cider mix. However adding feijoa should add some interest so I would not get worried about it being bland.

I would think that the pH of the apple juice is likely to be at the upper end of the scale here http://www.cider.org.uk/sulphite.html and so you may want to find some citric or ascorbic acid to bring the pH down a bit so that the campden tablet will be effective.

- Kill wild yeasts with campden tablets

Yes, but see comments on pH above. 

- Pitch in the yeast - going to use champagne yeast of some description (any recommendations?)

Champagne yeast works fine. I have used a lavallan dry yeast 

- Rack it into a second fermenter at some stage...at what point should I do this?  After a week or so?

Do this when the ferment has pretty much stopped. The hydrometer reading is likely to be down close to 1.000. How long this will take will depend on how warm your brew is etc.

- If it's too dry prior to bottling, what should I use to sweeten it?

Now this is problematic. If you add any fermentable sugar and there is still yeast in your cider then it will ferment all the sugar in the cider to dry again (and if there is a lot of sugar it will give you bottle bombs). If you want to have a sweet and sparkling cider then you would have to kill all the yeast in your cider using either chemicals or pasturisation and then carbonate the cider (usually using compressed CO2... i.e. kegging).

Alternatively you could use a non-fermentable sweetener. Things like lactose or high intensity sweeteners like sucralose or Ace-K will sweeten it, but may give it other flavours that are not correct in cider. If using high intensity sweeteners you are likely to have a drink that has a very thin body as well.

Another way around this problem is to ferment the cider to dry and naturally bottle condition so it is sparkling. You can then add lemonade or stir sugar into the finished product when drinking?

- Bottle it :)  I want it fizzy, will my ABC beer bottles be strong enough?  I was originally going to use sparkling wine bottles but have just realised they use a bigger crown cap - can you use crown caps without the proper sized capped?

ABC bottles are fine as long as you are only carbonating to normal levels... 

[Dougal]

I was originally going to use sparkling wine bottles but have just realised they use a bigger crown cap - can you use crown caps without the proper sized capped?

You can get 28mm crown seals for sparkling wine bottles from Brewers Coop in Auckland. You'll also need a larger bell for your capper, which most homebrew stores have or can order in.

[Slingshot]

I don't think I can change the bell on my beer bottle capper...it's one of those two handle versions.  I was hoping to get away without having to buy a new capper and bell...wonder if a hammer would do the trick:)

Will probably just end up using the ABC bottles.

[Slingshot]

Thanks Ralph, I've read (and re-read) that post and it's got loads of great info...your comments have put my mind at ease though...fingers crossed everything will go well :)

Still haven't decided what yeast to use, probably SN9 (for no good reason other than I've seen it mentioned and I know my local brew shop has it in the fridge).

[Matt]

Whered you get your apples mate? Im going to be pressing ~30kg of nashis this w/e and Im expecting a pretty bland juice, would like to add some apples in there if I can find them for the right price...

[Slingshot]

I got talking to a woman that was selling apples at the farmers market in Wellington a couple of weeks back.  She just saved the seconds for me...they've got marks on them, so perfectly fine to eat/juice but they weren't of a quality that she was happy to sell.

I'll message you her contact number if you're keen, her orchard is in Ohau (just south of Levin) but she was happy to bring them to the market to collect.

[Matt]

Im in aucks so prolly a bit far, thanks for the offer though!