Christchurch grain mill

[Blair Quane]

Hi, I bought some grain for a pilsner but did not realise that it was not crushed until it arrived. Is there anyone in Christchurch who would be willing to let me use their grain mill for this one?

[Nick T]

Hi Blair, If you need it today I am over in Cashmere, will be around for a little while but then later in the day I will be away until Tuesday....
027 2272 068

[Blair Quane]

Hi Nick,
I have started on the pilsner on sunday. I had a good mash and had a Wyeast pilsner smack pack bulging when I added it into the wort at around 19deg with 2mins pure O2 bubbled through it. I left the temp around the 19deg and then dropped it over night to sit around 10deg. Problem is, nothing is happening. There is no airlock activity and there does not appear to be anything happening in the bucket from what I can see through the side. Any ideas on what is going wrong? I guess it is now 36hrs after pitching. Is this too long and the yeast is a dead duck or do lagers take longer to start? Is it worth raising the temp to try and kick start the fermentation?
Cheers
Blair

[JR]

Generally better to pitch at a lower temp and raise from there. Cooling temps, esp big drops, can put the yeast to sleep while a rising temp increases activity.

Also unless its a rather low gravity beer then I would say you have underpitched by a fair margin. Use the mrmalty pitching rate calculator at mrmalty.com to find out how much yeast you should have used based on the age of the wyeast pack and the gravity of the beer.

I would raise the temp a couple of degrees and give it a swirl about to try and get things started. I would also consider adding another shot of O2 to promote yeast growth to get the cell count up - as long as you can do that before high krausin. (some might argue that this risks oxygenating the beer if the yeast doesnt get around to using it all - they might be right - but I would risk it )

[Blair Quane]

Yes I didnt realise this fact. It appears using the calc that I needed 3 packs or should have used a starter to grow more before pitching. Bugger. Do you think it would be best to introduce more yeast to it? If I did this I would have to get it posted to me and then do a starter so this could be 4-5 days time - will the brew be ruined by then?

[Nick T]

Hi Blair, as JR said, lagers ferment at lower temps, the only one I have done (A year ago, about to repeat this weekend by chance) I pitched at 7-8 degrees from memory, and slowly raised the temp to 10-12deg as recommended by Jamil in his book 'Brewing Classic Styles'. Also as JR said, you would normally grow the yeast in a yeast starter possibly up to a 4-5 litre starter for a lager. JamesP or one of the other serial lager brewers might have a better handle on what to do now, but I would think the yeasties have gone to sleep with that temp drop, if you re-raise as JR says and then slowly drop once they have started they may wake up again, but also just waiting another day might yield results too. If that doesn't work you might need to get more yeast (at this stage probably the saflager dried yeast from Your Shout or something like that). You probably should add more yeast anyway part way through the ferment, to make it up to the correct pitching rate - hopefully someone else can comment on when to do this, as I am not sure.

The other potential reason for no airlock activity is an air leak in your seals somewhere - not a problem but can be misleading.

If you do get them going again, make sure you do a good diacetyl rest (or however it is spelt) at the end, as the higher temps you started at may have produced some funky flavours that the yeasties need to clean up before retiring.

The reason that there are so few serial lager brewers out there are the extra little hassles you have to go through to make one - big yeast starters, cold fermentation temp control, long laagering periods etc - and they are very unforgiving of taste errors as they are so clean tasting. However, also very rewarding!

[Blair Quane]

Thanks for the milling Nick, much appreciated. Great set up you have and a nice beer to match! Cheers

[JR]

I learned about pitching rates the same way - pitched 1 old pack of wyeast into a 1.060 beer and it just sat there for days not doing much, then I went away on holiday and when I got back there was some evidence that there was a little foam at some point. I just left it to slowly ferment over a few weeks. The beer was drinkable but not what it should have been.

I would say your 2 options are 1) raise the temp a little, the increase will help wake up the yeast, and give them a swirl about and let the existing yeast do the job. Ferment a little higher than you were planning to in the upper region of the recommended range for the yeast you are using. or 2) As Nick suggested add some s23 if you can source some locally, if you cant I'm sure Dunedin malt house could fast post some to you overnight for tomorrow. Dried yeast is good cos you get lots of yeast fast, liquid yeast that is not super fresh has lower viability and usually needs a starter which takes time to get the same amount of yeast and you are in a hurry.

Chances of success are higher with option 2 but option 1 is easier.

[Blair Quane]

Thanks Nick T and JR, all good thoughts here. I will get some S23 this afternoon and get a starter going on it tonight and then look to pitch this in 24hrs or so at batch temp once the starter is well underway. Hopefully this will get some action. fingers crossed. cheers.

[Nick T]

with dry yeast you dont need to bother mucking around with a starter - it is relatively inexpensive so I would just get more packets of it (Mr Malty will tell you how many grams you need), rehydrate it and throw it in.

[Blair Quane]

I got home and find the brew bubbling away at a good rate. There is about 15mm foamy head on the top.
Temp is about 13deg and this will fall to 10deg now I have moved it into the fridge.
Do you think I should still pitch the S23 (bought packet today) or should I let the original yeast do its work now that it has a good roll on?

[Nick T]

Given that it is probably seriously underpitched, I think more yeast would be a good idea. Good news on the activity though!

[Blair Quane]

Hi Nick, I added the extra S23 on Wed night and it is still bubbling along nicely. I will do a good diacetyl rest when it is ready. Thanks for the help. Cheers