Basics...

[AJP]

So, been searching for a while and still can't find answers to some of the basics I am keen to learn.  Found a whole heap of interesting stuff I didn't know I wanted to know though, so thanks!

Here is my wish list of noob questions that I really hope have answers here.  Driving me nuts:

From an extract perspective, what does dark LME give you over light LME?  Higher OG?  Maltier flavour?  Higher FG too?  Less alcohol?  Better mouth-feel?  Or purely just a different colour?

What can I expect when steeping some specialty grain, say, Crystal 120-140, does this always add more fermentables?  What does this do to the OG and FG and ABV?  Or is this only done to get a fresher flavour and more depth?

And with a 23 litre fermenter, are there any rough guides to how much fermentables to achieve a desired %ABV?  How many kg of light malt to achieve 5% in a 23 litre ferment, that kind of thing?

Deep down, I know I should just enjoy what I brew, and I do, but I am a detail kind of guy.  And I need to know :)

So here I am, with one drinkable brew under the belt and loving it, and an extract / steeped grain coffee porter in the bottle with high expectations.  I get the feeling I could be around here for a while....

[Liam Callaghan]

I think most of us like the detail, often we make great beers that other people enjoy but can over critique our own as it's not exactly what you were wanting to make.

My two pence worth on your queries:

From an extract perspective, what does dark LME give you over light LME?  Higher OG?  Maltier flavour?  Higher FG too?  Less alcohol?  Better mouth-feel?  Or purely just a different colour?

• Dark LME will give you colour and a higher percentage of unfermentable sugars (which provide sweetness and mouth appeal) too much of it though is not good as the beer could become what the Belgians call undigestable.  You have one or two pints and your full and can't seem to drink any more.  This is how it works with darker grains anyway, I am guessing LME is the same, not much experience with it to be fair.

What can I expect when steeping some specialty grain, say, Crystal 120-140, does this always add more fermentables? 

• If your using the LME as your base malt that should be giving you most of your % alcofun.  The additional steeped grain is there for additional depth of flavour, colour, unfermtable sugars and some fermentable sugars.  The dark crystals (120-140) are going to kgive you more colour and sweetness in your finished product being high in unfermentable sugars.  Lighter malts like Munich and Vienna with give you a higher % fermentable to unfermentable and more malty nutty flavours with a smaller amount of colour.  Personally if your doing partial mash I would be using pale malt LME for my base and use all the speciality grains for your flavour and colour profiles.  Be wary of too much roasted grains, a little goes a long way!

What does this do to the OG and FG and ABV?  Or is this only done to get a fresher flavour and more depth?

• Darker malts will add to the OG but give you a higher FG as they contain more unfermentable sugars and make your beer 'thicker' or better mouthappeal and body.  Lighter malts will increase your OG too but with less of an affect on your FG.  It does depend on your steeping though and if you get conversion or not.  To convert the the sugars in the grain it need to be wetted and held within a certain temperature range for the ensymes in the grain to break down the sugars (Generally 64-67 degrees C for 40-60 minutes).  Not sure if most partial brewers do this as you are getting all your base alcohol from the LME so you can steep for less time and just use the malty flavours, colour and aroma from the grain.  I hope that makes sense, not had a coffee yet :)  All the grain additions will add to the flavour and give you a better beer but add them in moderation to your LME and check plenty of recipes on the web to find out some good working ratios (Google Cats Meow beer recipes which is a good starting point).

And with a 23 litre fermenter, are there any rough guides to how much fermentables to achieve a desired %ABV?  How many kg of light malt to achieve 5% in a 23 litre ferment, that kind of thing?

• This really depends on what you like to drink, what style of beer your trying to achieve if you brew to style.  So long as you understand what each grain is giving you and what you are going to get from that grain based on how you process it, its really up to you.  I often use around 20% munich to 80% pale or pilsner malt which give me a well bodied malty blonde, golden ale and lagers depending on hopping and yeast used - I can make the same recipe from the grain and split the batch into three with three different yeasts and get three totally different beers.  I've just recently made a 100% Munich and its tasting really good!  10kg Munich malt and 400g Munich II for a 60 litre batch and split into two 30 litres with different yeast.
• I have not done that many dark beers and not sure on the % of grains to your base malt but guessing 20% would be excessive.  More like 5-10% but check on the recipes on Cats Meow or the ones on here, personally I tend to read up a few dozen recipes at a time to get a feel for it then go taste the grain and make up my own using the others as a guide.

 

[Tilt]

Good detailed answer Liam.  I'd just add to your comment about Munich/Vienna under the steeping question to clarify these grains aren't crystals so will need to be mashed at the right temp to give you  fermentable sugars.  Steeping crystal grains doesn't need as much attention to temperature and time as they don't need to be mashed to ensure conversion of the starch to maltose.

Best I can add to what you've already put down is to have a flick through the Library here, and if you haven't already get hold of a copy of John Palmers How to Brew.  An older internet version is available here.

Good luck and tell us how you're getting on.

[AJP]

Many thanks for the replies, I really appreciate information so specific to the cause!

I have had a read through How to Brew, so have only gone with the advice therein as much as possible.  The first brew was a munich lager kit that came with the fermenter package, but I ditched the beer enhancer and used a can of black rock amber malt instead.  Wiith a hop addition of 40g    30 mins    Tettnanger    6.10%.  Turned out pretty good but seemed to get darker in colour and flavour between weeks 1 and 3 in the bottle.  Stabilised now and really enjoying it. Seems pretty weak on the alcohol content, but a decent quaffer.  Turned out more like an English bitter.

This is what I followed for the coffee porter, loosely based on a J Palmer recipe:

                   
23 litre batch                
Sterling Ale Yeast 514                    
Black Rock Light LME 1.8kg                    
Black Rock Dark LME 1.8kg                    
285g Carafa 1400                    
235 Crystal 120 - 140                    
OG    1.048
FG    1.017
ABV Estimate =    3.9%
Amount    Time    Type    Alpha        
28g    60    Nugget    13.50%        
21g    40    Willamette    5.70%        
16g    20    Willamette    5.70%

Grains steeped in muslin for half an hour at 65-70 degrees from memory.

And of course coffee, contents of a 12 shot stove top espresso maker.

I guess I was expecting a lower FG and higher ABV, with 2 cans of malt and the steeped grains.  From your reply Liam I am guessing the unfermentable sugar content is the guilty party here.  I wonder if 500g of regular sugar or dextrose would have got me to the 5-6% that I was looking for.  

FG reading was stable for 3 days and not overly sweet when sampling the sacrificial hydrometer sample.  Tasted great.  No bottle bombs.....which is nice.  So far.

From what I have read on here the Coopers lager LME seems like a good starting point for my next batch of partial.  I guess it's only a matter of time before the call of all grain sings louder than my budget :)

Great advice on reading up on plenty of recipes too, thanks for that.  It's off to Cats Meow for me now.