What are you brewing?

[nzbrewer]

Since this is the most popular thread on the RealBeer.co.nz forum I thought I would start it here just to see what happens

[JoKing]

Well technically, when you pich a full packet of yeast into 21 Liters of 1.040 wort, you are over pitching by 33% - which theoretically would give you a stronger attenuation, and perhaps less fermentation characteristics in the finished beer... good or bad? The decision is yours. What I can say with whenever I pitch accordingly, is that I have cleaner fermentations - i.e. less "yeasty" flavours in the beer... more appropriate attenuations (like not 86% like I get with US-05 sometimes) and better mouthfeel / flavour profiles. You get slightly longer lag times... which aint no big deal... and if you save that 1 / 3rd of yeast that you save - your 4th brew is for free!!!!

As far as you not getting it with those other hops... you may well not be using enough of them to bring out the grassyness in them... but trust me - they all have a "grass point"... Cascade especially!

[jt]

Why all the great aversion to SO4 ?
I know it has a reputation for being unkind to hops, but on the other side of the coin it also gets some great reviews.
Barry's first case swap bitter got rave reviews and did Greig use O4 in Saxby which also placed in a Comp ?

[JoKing]

There is nothing wrong with it at all. I think you need to know what to expect from it, because the ester / phenol production is so unique. You cant avoid it. If you know how to compliment it with your choice of malt, hops and fermentation temperature, it can make some outstanding beer.

Take Barrys case swap beer this time round. It had S-04 aromas to a moderate level... the amount of EKG as well as the dark crystal that he used worked to add layers of complexity rather than layers of confusion.

Then take the last time I used S-04. I had loads of Cascade and Sauvin... and it was dry hopped. I was trying to cover up the S-04 smell, but it didn't quit. It seemed to remove as much hop aroma as it needed to in order to make itself abundantly obvious in the brew. Then... I had this Citrussy, Grassy, Lemony, hoppy beer with this herbal phenolic character overiding it... not complex - it was confused.

Moral of the story... S-04 is good in the right beer. US-05 is much more versatile and can produce good results in the same beer styles as S-04.

Thats where I'm coming from mate.

[jt]

Hey thanks - as always - for the comprehnsive reply
As I tend to limit my appreciation of beer to 'oooo, I like it' or 'nah, I got it wrong' and I'm looking for some pretty simple unconfused ales, I'll leave SO4 for the milds and go '05 again

cheers, jt (looking for that styrian balance)

[jt]

OK, just mashed in, best Sunday morning I've seen for some time, clear starry sky and hardly a breath of wind.
I went with a nice high mash temp, 69 but I'm still thinking about SO4 for the last connection with the original recipe. Damn dried yeats, if I was using liquid I'd have this sorted days ago and a starter ready to pitch !

Unexpected bonus, the new neighbours brew ! Spotted a fermenter sitting in the garage and nosily asked about it

[jt]

Righto, a frost, very pretty I'm sure but a bit nippy.
Just added the mashout additon and got the hops out of the fridge - oh, and a blue packet of yeast - at least I'll be able to say I've tried it

[jt]

OK, looking back through the notes the best styrian ale was MO and 7% caramunich II.(But W1968)
I've been backing off the crystals going down to 2.5% so this maybe a contributing factor.

I'll give it another whirl with the 7% caramunich ii - or appropriate crystal

[JoKing]

Caramunich II is quite a lot lighter than some of the English Crystals though... plus the flavour profile is rather different too. I would definatley consider using Caramunich II again at 7% especially if this was the supreme Ale. Duneding malt house is selliong smackpacks of 1968 for $18 and I have so far had 3 trouble free generations out of my one... making the purchase comparable to one pack of dry....

Could be something worth looking into for you?

[jt]

Might go the caramunich and carahell again for the next order - for variety.

I don't know if I can be bothered with liquids again just yet, don't like the extra thought and work required for them.

[MrC]

I'd say stick with US-05 and adjust the hops to get what you want.

However, I've been thinking about using S-04 and "resting" the cooled wort on the hops in the kettle for 5 or so hours prior to transferring to the fermenter. The theory is that you'll simulate the no-chill hop infusion.

[jt]

OK, I did it with 100% styrian goldings and the SO4.
Also dry hopped with 1/2gm per litre and onto the 4th pint since I kegged it last night. It's certainly got the styrian bitterness component but anything after that is a bit lacking.
SO-4 might take a bit of work - or the keg might develop - or I might go back to '05 - or I might have another pint to make sure ....

cheers, jt

[JoKing]

Don't wanna say it, jt.... but....

Told ya so...