RateBeer.com

[nzbrewer]

I look at some of the ratings, and feedback, and ranking of some of the beers on RateBeer.com, and I find myself wondering if the crowd collectively is right, or they are just following the rest of the crowd. Do these people judge/rate these beers unbiasedly or is it very emotional? Many cases it looks emotional.

I'd like to take an example of Epic Lager. This beer is filtered bright, has a nice white head (even noted in the comments) but all the reviewers gave Appearance 3/5. What is wrong with this beer that it loses 2 points for its appearance. Is it just the fact you can't give full marks for appearance, or is 3/5 the best anyone gets unless there is emotion or passion from the reviewer towards the beer?

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/epic-lager/85644/1005/

[Stu McKinlay]

re: judging v rating:

The average beer rating on Ratebeer includes at least as much useful information as any judging feedback I've ever seen.

If you are a brewer who is at all interested in looking at RateBeer, you need to separate the wheat from the chaff. Use the wheat and don't worry about the chaff.

[Andrew]

Good comments Stu. But - "..how much does it Epic Lager say "drink me" when lined up next to another beer? Put it next to Monk's Habit and I'll reach for the amber beer every time." ...So why even bother to rate a beer that you know you won't really like because you don't like that style? Just to add another rating to your score? Is that really doing the beer fair justice?

" it helps me remember how beers change over time, " - mmmm - I really wonder how valid this is. I know my own perceptions have changed over the years and I certainly wouldn't trust memory or notes as a true indicator of anything other than how I was feeling at the time. For example - the first time I tasted Budweiser was cruising back up to Hanmer Springs (I was working there at the time - not a patient!) - stinking hot summertime Norwester, blues howling on the cheap car stereo, just landed another contract and life was sweet. The slab of cool Bud tasted mighty fine to me. (makes me shudder now to think of it). I don't imagine it has changed much but I know I have. Trying to map the changes of a product is always a dilema for a brewer. There is nothing of the original to compare it with other than notes and dodgy memories. I think the best we can hope to do is just keep the product good and consistancy be damned. It only takes a brewery to do something silly like turn it's back on its loyal locals and move it's operation to Auckland to quite suddenly change the flavour of its beer - no matter how close it is to the original, don't you think?

Oh, and speaking of chaff - we have a raunchy little cider here at the moment that was pressed through some well aged straw - a decidedly chaffy background flavour that brings to mind a jolly good roll in the hay!

[Stu McKinlay]

I never said I didn't like Epic Lager, quite the contrary actually. And each time I try it I like it a little more (I've tried it three times, from three different batches - [1) boring, "cock and bull" lager 2) too hoppy without the bitterness to carry it, 3) bloody lovely]. I'd reach for the amber beer because my experience, which I remember well because of my notes, tells me that it is more likely to be the more interesting experience (though not necessarily the better beer).

The second paragraph is very valid (whether or not it is true or not is more the debate). Perhaps it is not suitable for everyone but it certainly is for me. Emerson's 1812 and Wanaka Brewski, which were two of my favourite beers 18 months to 2 years ago, have changed a lot and I almost never buy them any longer - once in a blue moon, just to see if where they are headed. I'm pretty sure that my palate and memory are better than 99.9% of the population.

Shame I'll not get to try that cider. Sounds great (that's my own subjective opinion though...).

I'm not sure where getting anywhere, or if there is any point left in the debate - we're all agreed that it is subjective. However, I'm certainly keen to continue the debate over a beer... hopefully I'll be down your way some time to take up the pro-ratebeer side of the debate. I'm certainly well overdue.

Slainte mhath

[Andrew]

Don't forget to bring those bottles back! (oh and theres always a bed for you here - assuming the house is not full of musos of course)

Cheers

[Stu McKinlay]

Cheers! My father-in-law (Paddy Burgin) has played down there once or twice. He's a luthier with a soft spot for that part of the country. I wouldn't kick a muso out of bed.

[Andrew]

Ah - small world - our neighbour and supplier of garden furniture, Humphrey Newton, is a good mate of Paddys too and has supplied him with instument timber.

[nzbrewer]

This thread is also being discussed here

http://www.ratebeer.com/forums/ratebeer-at-realbeerconz_96615.htm

[Stu McKinlay]

Yeh, I popped a link on there to see what came back. Only one person being unreasonable. That's one more than Realbeer ;-)

I never actually read the forums there, unless someone RateBeer mails me a link, so I had only seen JoeT's feedback a few minutes after I posted. JoeT reckons you're a stand up guy Luke - I must admit, I've never seen you lying down (though I've seen you spend a helluva long time sitting).

[Stu McKinlay]

oh, yeah, and my ratebeer photo is the head shot to go with my realbeer photo ;-)

[Andrew]

Another thing I find intriguing about the love affair for things big and foamy and the show of a nice bit of lace is the fact that both of these things can so easily be created with the right chemical additives.
At least the apple with the worm in it, you know is safe to eat!

[Stu McKinlay]

It's about time you commented on the rising cost of beer Andrew... you must be up with the play there. Do you see a lot of cider in your future?

[Andrew]

I have not long ago hauled my sore body in from the feilds where I have been planting apple trees! Just another 64 grannies to go - if this rain lets up should be done by the weekend. So yes - lashings of cider - it makes complete sense. The apples fall, we squash them, it ferments, we have a tradable commodity. Oil and the economy be damned.