Newbie - Muntons Export Pilsner recipe?

[HerrSchnapps]

Well, after much study, I've finally decided to attempt brewing that isn't simply "pour wort, add sugar, yeast, ferment"; so I have a Muntons Export Pilsner that I'm looking at making into something tasty, which is kind of where you knowledgable people come into it :).
I'm looking at 500g of DME + 500g dextrose with 15g of NZ Hallerauer for bittering, and the same of Saaz for aroma. Also, should I use the included Muntons yeast, or get something like a Saflager?

Seeing as I haven't done something like this, I'm a little nervous about what to do, as I really don't want to stuff up! But I'm looking foward to the next evolution in my beer brewing, so if anyone has some advice or could sugest changes to the above, I'd be greatfull! Also, what's the best place to purchase malt, hops etc? (I'm in Christchurch, though Hauraki Homebrew looked decent for price and selection)
Cheers!

[bj]

Hi, congrats on your decision to make the next step. Its easy, and as long as you clean and sanitsise everything that will contact the beer, you cant go to far wrong.
And i would give dennis at Dunedin Malthouse a call re ingredients, he has a great range at good prices and is an experienced brewer.

That recipe you have would make a good beer, personaly i would save the dextrose for bottling and use 1 kg of dme.

Method:
-bring 3L water to the boil (more if youve got a bigger pot)
-take off heat and stif in 500g dme
-return to boil, stiring, then add flavour hops (any amount from 15-30g)
-boil for 10min, stiring regularly, take of heat then add the remainder of the extract (dme and kit).
-bring back to boil (just for 1 min to steralise), add aroma hops and take off boil
-chill in ice bath to 20 deg and add to 18L of water in fermenter.
-pitch pkt of saflager-23 yeast (excelent for this style of beer)
-ferment between 10-15 deg for 2-3 weeks
-bottle and enjoy!

But then, thats just what id do. Im sure others will chime in.
Happy brewing

p.s when your ready to make another step, i would strongly recomend having a read of http://www.howtobrew.com/

[Edward Siddle]

that looks like decent advice. I would probably stress that the more wort you can actually boil the better, really. herrschapps, it looks from the original post that you want to use some hops for extra bittering, and that in my book means boiling for at least 45 mins with the hops. if you boil up two tins of malt extract (one from the kit, the other some plain pale extract as suggested by bj) in only 3L of water it is going to caramelize and darken and you probably won't get great extraction of the bitterness (the stronger the wort, the less the isomerization of the alpha acids). so get yourself to the red shed and get one of their 17L pots and use that, as a start. it is slightly harder (takes longer) to cool down, but with cold chch water and a few ice cream containers of ice in the bath (not in the wort, though if it was sterilized water maybe) i reckon you could get it to about 16C in one hour or so. here in wgtn i can get 20L down to 14C overnight. which is perfect for pitching a pils.... have one planned for in about 3 weeks as it happens.

[HerrSchnapps]

Cheers for that, yeah I bought myself a 20L stock pot a couple weeks back for this purpose (and my flatmate bought up a 25L carboy so I have a secondary fermenter now!). Now, I wasn't sure if it would be safe to boil up the Muntons kit, as I read many kits have iso-hops added, which when boiled can result in "unpleasant flavours"?
Also, I'll be fine with using a full kg of DME if I use the saflager-23? (bearing in mind I'm on a student budget) As I thought I'd still need some dextrose in there otherwise the yeast wouldn't be able to ferment fully (or am I confusing quality yeast with that crap bastard-lager yeast they chuck in with the kits?). Although I see you can get unhopped extract kits (which are cheaper), what are they like compared to DME?
Thanks for the help so far! I'm really looking foward to brewing something I can somewhat call my own :)

[denimglen]

How big is your batch? 25L may be a little big for a secondary unless your batch size is 24 - 25L. Otherwise it would make a fine primary for a 19 - 20 L batch.

I've never heard of that problem with prehopped extract kits but it wouldn't surprise me if it's true.

Full kilo of DME will be fine with the S23. Dextrose ferments out (almost) 100%. But too much also makes the yeast 'forget' how to metabolise maltose (main wort sugar). Also 1kg of dextrose will lend a cidery taste to the brew.

Unhopped extract kits are referred to as LME (L for liquid :-P). Generally DME is preferred because LME is more likely to go 'off' ie produces off flavours and darkens if stored too long etc. DME is a better choice for light lagers IMO.

I'd also reccommend fermenting that as cold as possible. Around the 10 - 12 C mark if you can. If you cool it that much before pitching your yeast it would be a good idea two pitch two sachets.

For you next brew I'd suggest brewing an ale, they're alot easier to brew.

It's worth emailing Mike at [e-mail]. No website but he has a great selection and will probably mail order.

Hope that helps :-)

[HerrSchnapps]

I was looking at 23L, fermenting at around 10-15 C (hopefully on the colder end, now that winter is nearly upon us) in the 30L brewcraft fermenter for several days, then siphoning off into the carboy for secondary/lagering for 3-4 weeks? So in that case, I guess I'll be better off with two saflager-23, and a kg of DME... (this is starting to get relatively expensive :P )

In terms of dextrose, I know it leads to a cidery taste - which was why I was wanting to use malt - I just wasn't sure how much I could use, as many of the articles/books said to start with a 50/50 mix of dextrose/DME. But if you guys think it'll be fine, I'm happy (frak 'em!), especially if it leads to more body; I've been missing it with the current kit stuff I've done (along with hops...).
Finally, yeah I know I should really be doing an ale of sorts, but with the colder temps I thought I'd try a Pilsner, even if lagers/pilsners are the harder ones to brew right. But I'm up for the challenge :)

Thanks for sharing the wisdom so far, much appreciated, and I'll give Mike an email.
Cheers!

[Edward Siddle]

denim is right about the LME for a light pilsner but one thing to consider is that in my experience, dried malt extract is incredibly expensive compared to liquid - at least last time i looked. 1.5kg of pale liquid extract (the nz brand - blackrock?) used to be $10 and 500g of dried was the same, but the former is going to supply about 22-24 gravity points in a 20L batch, while one pack of the dry will only get you about 10 or so i reckon.

but i reckon you can make a perfectly good beer with the 50/50 mix you suggest, particularly given that some kits are designed to actually be combined with dextrose rather than have more malt with them.

chch temps should be ideal for lager. go for it! s23 will be excellent for this.

[HerrSchnapps]

Yep its pretty expensive, though I'm going for 1kg of DME as I noticed that Muntons mentions using either sugar or DME, and it was a couple of dollars cheaper from Mike ($17.90kg, actually, everything I asked about was cheaper).. Now I've just got to get the bank account number, pay him, and wait for my lovelies to arrive... brew this weekend, can't wait now! Should be studying, instead all I can think about is brewing...

[Edward Siddle]

ah yes, thinking about brewing instead of what you're supposed to be doing. i imagine it is an affliction shared by many on this forum, myself included.

i like your user name too, btw, herr schnapps!

[denimglen]

I wonder if I could talk Mike into getting his own DME in. That Munton's stuff is expensive to start with and then BrewCraft repackage it which makes me think they're making a bit of profit on it as well.

[HerrSchnapps]

Okay, I thought I'd give an update on how it went. Finally had the time to brew, so I went with this:
1kg DME and 200g Dextrose (+ the Muntons kit at the last minute),
20g NZ Hallertaur (5.7%) @ 30mins
10g Saaz (3.2%) @ 30
10g Saaz @ 10
Ended up with an OG of 1.050, which is what I was aiming for, with two packets of Saflager-23 to pitch, I'm hoping for a FG of around 1.014. Have a feeling I should have gone with 15-20g of Saaz at 10 mins, and less Hallertaur. It might be on the bitter side with not enough Saaz aroma, but oh well, lets see how it ferments.
Cheers :)

[Tony]

Cool, whats done is done. I hope it works for you. I have just used they saflager 23 myself, although I haven't bottled it yet. That fermenter has a leak so I am continually having to check the SG every couple of days to see how it is going. Give it the taste test too, it won't taste like finished beer, but you will get an indication if it is turning vinigery or acidic.

Personally I would have gone for liquid malt extract, maybe you can try that next time?

Good luck, as long as you sanitized well, you should be ok.

[HerrSchnapps]

Yeah, it's all a learning experience :) I went with DME as everything I read (including the guys in this thread) reckoned it was superior, though when I do my next brew I think I'll try LME (an ale or stout probably, once this brew is out of the primary). I checked the fermeter this morning, its about 10-11 degrees, sitting on the floor under the sink in the bathroom with a window open (coldest room in the flat). I pitched the yeast at about 13-14 degrees last night. Hasn't started bubbling yet... *fingers crossed*. Haven't had an infected brew yet (well except some of the pale ale that I had to prime with sugar straight to the bottle after I forgot to bulk-prime...never making that mistake again!)