Panhead - Jonny Octane

[Harry]

Hi guys, 

Looking at trying to clone this beer, probably early next month.

I tried it at LBQ earlier this month towards the end of the night and really enjoyed it, however having had a skinfull by this time my memory of what I enjoyed so much is a tad hazy, so unfortunately will have to try it again before finalising the recipe :)

I have searched online for some info and this description was the best I saw, naturally I have never used any of these hops and this is a beer which relies heavily on them, so I'm going to need some advice regarding their use. I also haven't used Sheperd's Delight, Red Back or Aurora malts which I'm initially thinking could be utilised in this brew, so any advice there would be appreciated.

"This is Canhead No.4 in a range of four great new beers from Panhead presented in 440ml cans. Hence Canhead This is a heavily hopped IPA with large additions of Columbus, Centennial, Amarillo and Simcoe producing aromas of orange, pine and caramel. The rich, firm malt base identifies it clearly as a red. The hops provide a balanced bitterness on the palate and a lengthy pine and citrus finish.

8% ABV"

(http://www.craftbeeronline.co.nz/panhead-canhead-no-4-johnny-octane...)

Crunching some numbers on brewersfriend and breaking my usual rules regarding the amounts of specialty malts I would use I'm currently thinking along the lines of 

4.2 kg Pale Ale

1.5 kg Munich

0.7 kg Medium Crystal

0.25 kg Aurora

0.03 Black malt

With 80% efficiency this gives vitals of 1.083 OG and 30 EBC.

With the black being there purely for colour I might even leave it out. 

The Crystal and Munich combo I have used before, it ended up far to sweet in that recipe without enough hop bitterness to balance so will have to go back into the diary to check out what IBU's it had, but for this my first thought is to balance it with OG or slightly lower and aim for 80, with the majority of the hops coming in late. 

Given the information above I'm thinking

25g Simcoe (12.7%) @ 60 min 35 IBU

50g Amarillo (8.6%) Whirlpool (30 mins, 5% utilisation) 10 IBU

50g Centennial (10%) Whirlpool (30 mins, 5% utilisation) 12 IBU

50g Columbus (15%) Whirlpool (30 mins, 5% utilisation) 18 IBU

Total 75 IBU, however given I have plucked my hop utilisation that's probably +/- 15.

Yeast I was looking at using S-04 for its slightly lower attenuation adding to the background sweetness, ferment at 20°

This is a decent step away from what I usually brew and plenty of unknowns in there for me ( well only malts, hops and trying to clone a beer), so any advice is greatly appreciated. As I said my memory of the beer is slightly hazy so I will have to try and track down another can as this current recipe may be waaaaay off. 

[David R]

I have tried this beer and really liked it, but can't remember enough about it to offer much in the way of valuable feedback.

That won't stop me taking a guess though! IMO, I would expect there to be a bit more to the hop schedule than 60 + 0 additions. I'd certainly dry hop it and add in a ten minute addition. I also think if you want piney notes then there should be some Simcoe in the whirlpool/dry hops.

I'll keep an eye out for it and try it again if I get a chance, see if I can contribute anything more than just guesswork...

[Harry]

Thanks for that, someone else had very similar recommendations over on HBT.

So to update I will split the current whirlpool additions in half and use the spare hops at 10m, as well as use some simcoe (25g @ 10, 25g @flameout), as well as dry hopping with 10g of each variety (or more? advice very welcome here).

I also need to get my hands on another can, hopefully I can track some down when I head to New Plymouth tonight. The lack of beer available in my town is painful.

[David R]

Right, I'm drinking one right now, spicy pizza may be affecting my tastebuds but I'll have a go at dissecting it anyway.

I think your grainbill is a great starting point, the beer in my glass has a lovely red-brown hue and is absolutely crystal clear. The hard part will be getting the hop flavour right. I'm not getting massive fruity flavours so I think the Amarillo and Centennial will play a supporting role to the Simcoe and Columbus. There's a good firm bitterness, and I'd suspect there would be additions throughout the boil plus a moderate dry hop. Big FO addition, 10, 30, and 60min to get your desired IBU. Your guess is as good as mine for how much of which variety when though!

[Harry]

I brewed this up on saturday, dropped the black malt and added 250g of sour grapes as I have been having astringency issues with my full volume mashes. also dropped the liquor/grist ratio back to 3:1. Really only needed to do 1 of those things but hey ho.

My hop additions I split the late ones between 10 mins and flame out with a 30 min stand and also added some simcoe to both.

Mash efficiency was a touch off and ended up at 1.075 which is no real biggie, and the yeast ended up being 1x 04 and 1x 05 because I forgot to order 2 sachets of 04. 

Altogether it was just a horrible brew day (started with the drill going flat ended with my mash bag ripping when disposing of the spent grain) but hit my mash temps, efficiency is only just below and its bubbling away nicely so will keep you updated.

[Crusader-Rob]

Interesting, I brewed an attempt at Vindicator awhile back, and while super tasty, came out too hoppy. not enough malt backbone.

used chinook/centennial and zythos.

[Harry]

I was just having a look at your post on it, reminded me a bit of a clone for Arrogant Bastard I brewed at the start of the year, which had 13% CaraAroma and used Chinook. I haven't had the Vindicator so can't really comment on your recipe (other than I am more than prepared to drink any you send me)

I've also been having problems with malt and body in recent batches, I blame it primarily on missing my mash temps but am thinking that full volume mashes haven't helped either. Add to that the astringency issue I have picked up in some previous batches I have gone back to a 3:1 liquor to grist ratio.

That fact along with the ripping of my BIAB bag has pushed me towards building my 3 vessel system. False bottom is ordered so that will give me somehing to do this weekend

[Crusader-Rob]

yeah the ripping of the bag would be pretty annoying.

i do want to brew it again, but its well down my pipe line in like feb/march. after the wedding and the mountains of beer i need to brew for it...

give it a crack if you fancy it though. nice malty backbone, it just wasn't like vindicator, but damn good as it was.

[Harry]

So this is the best beer I have made yet, hands down.

Unfortunately it's not a clone.

Double unfortunately I haven't been able to get my paws on a can of the original to do a side by side comparison.

Working from memory of that fateful night at LBQ;

The bitterness/malt ratio needs to be changed in favour of the malt, so will push the 10 min additions back to 5 mins.

Colour was too light, add the Black as originally planned and double the Aurora.

Add more base malt to bring up OG (new system getting tested this weekend so will know by how much after that)

Use 2 packs s-04 yeast (maybe splash out for some fresh yeast), should lower attenuation and help the malt balance/sweetness.

Hop combos to stay the same unless I can get a can before this keg kicks and do a side by side.

Leave in fermenter for an extra week, and don't tap the keg for an extra week, had a touch of alcohol heat that mellowed and made the beer a lot better.