WYEAST Lager Strain woes

[Dan]

Hi All

I make a lot of Pilsner and like to use WYEAST 2124 (Bohiem Lager). The last 3 packets I have bought have failed to start in the starter and I have had to get another packet urgently to get them going. After this happening 3 times(from 2 different suppliers) I thought it must have been something to do with that strain so tried WYEAST 2000 this time (Budvar) but same thing happened!

I always smack pack and let sit for 2 hours before pitching, and never have a problem with the ale strains. I usually start with a 2L starter at about 1.035 and room temp.

Also I tend to reuse the yeast for about 3 batches and never have issue getting the subsequent slurries going.

The only thing I can think of is that I get them couriered to me(with ice pack) and they usually overnight so maybe they dont like that??I always go and pick up the second packet and pitch same day.

Has anyone else ever had this problem with WYEAST lager strains??When I used to use White Labs I never had this issue and thinking I might go back to them and see if I have any issues.

[Des Ross]

Are you certain that you have actually ruptured the the nutrient sac inside the packet? If the packet is not fully inflated and very hard, this may be the problem....if it is hard, a 2L starter should ramp up quite quickly provided you have introduced enough Oxygen into the wort starter. The starter temperature should not be too low...18C is about right for a lager starter. I'm assuming 20L batches but if higher, perhaps consider growing the culture for a couple more days. Freighting liquid yeast with ice packs is recommended practice and actually protects the yeast. If the pack inflates fully 2 hours after smacking, I would be confident that yeast viability is not an issue and would be looking at oxygenation and pitch temperature. Finally, give the yeast time to build up and drop that gravity down by at least half...hope this helps..

[Dan]

Thanks Des

Yes the nutrient pack pops but after 2-3 hrs they dont seem to expand at all, hence im sure its a yeast issue and am wondering if it is an issue with lager strains? When ever I do an ale strain or Belgian they do fully inflate no problem.?  Seems odd that 3 lager yeasts bought over a period of a year, from 2 different suppliers would all have viability issues.......

[Grant R Baker]

Normally I would run a lager starter at 12C and leave it twice as long (about 48 hours) as lager yeast is slow to start.

Otherwise I haven't had an issue with lager yeast from WYEAST.

[Dan]

Interesting,

A quick google would suggest Im not the only one that has had this issue with the Budvar in the starter.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=73140

http://terrencetheblack.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=22676

Might be something to be weary of.........

Thanks for all of your comments