Stepping into all grain

[Z Adams]

Hi there,

Just wanted to get some advice on moving into all grain brewing and the equipment requirements needed.

I've done a number of extract type brews and looking to go into all grain. My current gear consists of all the basics needed for extracts, 15L pot, fermenter, bottles etc.

Wanted to get others opinions on whether to build up gear and start with BIAB, or getting a mash tun and boiling pot, or go straight for the grain father.

I'm leaning towards the grain father as it seems easy to use and a more long term option, but the $1k price tag is putting me off a bit as money would be a bit of a deciding factor for me.

[John H]

I am currently using a Grainfather. I have nothing against BIAB - I BIAB-ed for almost 5 years - it allows you to make AG brews with the minimum equipment/cost.

If budget permits I would recommend going straight for a Grainfather.

[Cain Harland]

Weather or not your likely to go much under the grain father price probably depends on what you have already, eg I had a big chilly bin with drain hole so converted it to a mash tun with fairly minimal work and expense then all I needed to go all grain was a big pot, gas burner and homemade immersion chiller. I'm guessing it cost about $400 to get started but if you had to buy the chilly bin and factored in the weldless fittings, ball valves, pump etc I have added it makes the grainfather price look pretty attractive and mine is still ghetto as and doesn't have temperature controlled recirculating mash like the grainfather. On the upside mine does 40L brews, and I might get there with temperature control and recirculation with gradual upgrades.I would say if you get into this all grain thing (and I'm guessing you will) you will probably spend at least the grain father price either way but maybe its easier to do it in increments.

This deal might still be on if your looking for something to convert to a mash tun.

http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/forum/topics/if-anyone-is-after-a-1...

[Peter Smith]

How much space do you have and are you practical, can you drive a drill? build a stand?  I say this as if you have the space 50L kegs converted to hlt/mt/bk are a great option...     with gravity feed and gas need not be too expensive to start with. I went $200 pot in pot system to 50L kegs gas, moving to electric kegs with herms.   there was no GF when I started, I also prefer to do double batches,  for the 6hrs invest 20L beer is a low return vs 40L    kegs hold value well, they worth even more once converted to mt/bk etc etc,  you can upgrade one piece and add $$ as you go.

We should have a brew day at someones house with GF, pot in pot and full on 3 vessel one day

[Mark Thomas]

I agree with all of the above. The only thing I'd add would be to ask around or look on Trade Me for a second hand mash tun set up that someone else has already built and tested. That could save you quite a bit of money and time spent testing the gear

[Peter Smith]

cant go wrong 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/home-living/lifestyle/home-brewing/brewing...

[Cain Harland]

Defiantly cant go wrong if you get it at reserve then you just need a 50+L pot or keggle and a way to heat and cool your wort.

10gal mash tun + 50L kettle will get you doing 40L brews, I tend to agree with peter that it seems a lot more worth while on the bigger brew. Funny I'm saying that as I brew with a friend so only get 20L anyway. The flip side to that is if you like brewing, want to experiment and don't drink a huge amount of beer then you don't get to brew that often if your doing bigger brews.

2 pots/keggles + mashtun would be better but you can get away with catching the wort in a bucket or old fermenter and transferring it to the kettle. I have 2 spare plastic fermenters so use my 1 pot to heat sparge water then put that in one fermenter and drain mash tun to the other and transfer back to pot to boil. One day I will find some cheap kegs and convert to a proper 3v system but the 2.1 works just fine, just a little more work.

[David R]

I'm in a similar situation, I've been brewing half-sized AG batches with some gear I already had and feel like it's time to step up to a "proper" set up. I've ruled out the Grainfather, partly because of the cost, partly because it limits you to ~7kg of grain, but it may still be an option for you.

I'm thinking the way to go is to get a good sized pot, chiller, and burner and have a go at BIAB to start out, then decide if you want to go for a three vessel system later. There was a good discussion a while back on the subject and I was surprised to see so many people who had gone back to BIAB for time/simplicity; http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/forum/topics/brewing-techniques-bia...

My problem is finding a good 50L pot. There's a few on trademe but they vary greatly in price, and while I'm certainly sceptical of the quality of the cheap ones, I'm also suspicious that the more expensive ones may not be much better.

$58: http://www.trademe.co.nz/home-living/kitchen/pots-pans-bakeware/pot...

$79: http://www.trademe.co.nz/home-living/kitchen/pots-pans-bakeware/pot...

$124: http://www.trademe.co.nz/home-living/kitchen/pots-pans-bakeware/pot...

Does anyone have any experience buying from any of the above sellers?

The 'Hardy' vessels on allgrain.co.nz look very good, but at $250 are double the price. The option of the thermometer would be handy, but I can't get my head around how the bottom drain would work with a heap of hop trub in the bottom of the kettle. Could you boil the hops in a bag to avoid them ending up in the fermenter?

If possible, I'd recommend you find someone who brews with a three-vessel system, and someone who does BIAB (and maybe someone with a grainfather too) and see if you can hang out with them while they brew to see how it all goes down. Each system has it's advantages, but if you start with BIAB then 99% of the equipment you gather will be able to be used if you switch to 3v.

[David R]

I'm certainly planning on chilling, probably just with an immersion wort chiller. I brewed an IIPA on a friends system a couple of weeks ago and we ended up splitting the wort nearly 50/50 because of the amount of hop material left in it. The 'clean' half went straight in the fermenter and another 10L went into another carboy to settle and I ended up getting an additional 6L of wort out of what looked like green soup! With a beer like that if you're using an outlet at the bottom of the kettle to drain I guess you'd need to use some sort of bag/basket/spider to avoid ending up with too much trub in the fermenter, or would you not worry too much and rack it over to a secondary once the initial fermentation is almost over (or just dump the trub out the bottom if you're using one of those flash conical things)?

[Cain Harland]

My 50L pot is a cheapish trade me one, not sure which (I didn't buy it) while its certainly thin and feels a bit flimsy I have had no problems at all with it.

[Z Adams]

Sweet, thanks. Thinking I'll definitely start with the BIAB option for now. I've been keeping an eye out on Trademe for a little while so hopefully something good pops up!

[Dene McDonald]

I've been there and built my own system up from BIAB to 3v... just got rid of it all and I am happy as anything with the Grainfather. It's compact, easy to use, versatile and everything fits together nicely. 

Is the beer any different to BIAB or 3v? Not really... but the brew day experience is much better.