Overcarbonation

[Crusader-Rob]

Hi all,

Just trying to esatablish the cause of overcarbonation, this is the first time for me.

an IPA at 5.4% (Based on the Smell the Roses IPA by Kelly)

I carbed based on beersmiths to 2.55 volumes at 20 litres, i had 19 litres instead, so thats probably part of it, but based on calcs, it should be around 2.7 if thats the case. Now I'm actually getting gushers, and its ridiculously bitter due to the high carb. aroma is fantastic.
I do not believe the beer has an infection, based on taste, what is the more likely cause here ?

1- Residual CO2 from cold crashing, which has absorbed into the beer prior to bottling? If so, this is the first time I've has this type of issue. Cold crashied for 3 days with dryhop, awith 3 week fermentation and transfer to secondary after 10 days.

2- extreme heat in my garage, causing the yeast to over ferment in the bottles, if the beer was around 30 degrees. thats a temp guess, it could be more.

3- underattenuation (this is unlikely, as the beer went 1.055-1.012 and sat at that)

When batch priming, how do people calculate their figures, if acold crash is included? as the priming calculators suggest temps at bottling? I was told that the highest temps used is the target for priming?

Advice?Thoughts?Help?

2.55 volumes based on 21 top temperature, for 20 litres 126g of dextrose, which ended up being 19 litres.

[Crusader-Rob]

Wow Great traction on this thread.

It'll be interesting to see the differences in beer:

I've made two IPA/XPA batches recently, using similar hops and some minor adjustments for the grain bill. they are two separate recipes, however the similarities are there. anyway.....

these have been carbed to different levels (the IPA being overcarbed) the other one i got 2.5 volumes from my calculator, and stuckwith that because of the issues, now same yeast used, same fermentation temperature/schedule. it'll be interesting to see the difference 4g of sugar and 500ml of beer makes... probably considerable, but given my previous issue with carbing, I'm happier with under carbedbeer, until i get kegging running.

Now, my fermentation schedule went as follows:

pitch US-05 dry at 17, ramp to 18 24hours, ramp to 90 48 hours, 

21 after 3 furthewr days at 19, then back to 20. dryhop 1 at 20, dryhop 2 at 17, and final dryhop and 3degrees.

I transferred prior to dryhopping, and the beer sat in primary and secondary for 10 days a piece. If I've mucked up the temps for carbing, I'm picking its either 18 or 19 for what it should've been carbed to. which effectively means, that at peak fermentation the temp it is fermenting at (the time where most co2 is being produced) will be the correct dissolved co2 into ther fermenting beer. is that pretty much what your saying zane,

peak fermentation temperature = disolved co2.

Lagers are similar, although peak fermentation is technically at the lower temps, the final vigorous fermentation (Diacetyl rest) will be the  most dissolved co2 temperature.....

Maybe I'm getting the hang of this brewing thing.

[Ralph]

Hey Rob, my thinking is that if the beer sits at 21 deg and then there is no more fermentation then the dissolved CO2 will be constant at the highest temperature. When you warm the liquid up it will lose carbonation. Cooling it down will not add back much in the way of CO2 unless there is more fermentation.

So... sitting at 21 for a while... then dropping to 20 and 17 to dry hop should not be adding any CO2 into solution... I would use the highest temperature, in your example 21 deg.

[Crusader-Rob]

Yeah I guess so, it just made so much sense in my head. lol. 

WOuld the co2 not be disolved back into solution when the temp drops back down?

[Ralph]

I think that unless there is something that is actively bubbling the CO2 through the solution (like an active fermentation) that it will take a long time for the CO2 to dissolve back into solution at normal atmospheric pressure? With a keg it takes about a week at high pressure with the beer cold to get the beer to carb up. If you bubble the CO2 through the beer in the keg then you can get it carbed up almost straight away.

In short, there may be a little dissolve back in but I do not think it will be much.

[Smiffy]

It's already gone out of the airlock.

[Crusader-Rob]

right, so i know its only been just over 12 hours since i popped the bottle, its sitting at 1.010, not sure how residual co2 in the beer will affect this. so it'll be monitored for the next day or two, to confirm those numbers are correct.

This means its fermented in the bottle, so its either an infection, or the 30degree and higher heat in my garage (My latest brew is carbing up inside)

[Peter Smith]

I read somewhere that it takes 2-3 points to achieve full carbonation, not sure if it was accurate, but interesting number if true...  would be easy to bottle early or if it was cold then bottles warmed up a lot in conditioning.

[Crusader-Rob]

Definitely not bottled early, spent 3 weeks in fermenters (10 days each). I can't taste any off flavours at the moment, so at this stag I'mrunning with the high heat during bottle conditioning.
I'll have to be more careful, and not just leave them in the garage in the peak of summer. got a big freezer, for lagering (upright) so I can fridge things once carbed.

Its a real shame, the beer would have ben amazing if not for the issues... i had 2 gushers yesterday while re-capping, and threw them into a jug, and left for over anhour, lower carb tasting good.

[Ralph]

If the beer finished lower in the bottle than in the fermentor then I would be looking at your yeast health (assuming it is not an infection). I really recommend having a read of the book "Yeast" http://www.amazon.com/Yeast-Practical-Fermentation-Brewing-Elements...

There are all sorts of things that can mean your yeast was not at its optimum and might have not fermented the last couple of points down. Things include - temperature control, yeast nutrients, pitch rate, yeast health etc etc.

Having the beer sitting warm in bottles may have just given the yeast the extra kick it needed to ferment the last couple of points down. I would concentrate on getting your yeast to fully ferment by getting the fermentation right. Even stored cool the bottles may continue to ferment the extra points over time.

If you have space then storing the bottles cool will give you better tasting beer for much longer... so I would recommend storing them cool if you can.

[Crusader-Rob]

MIGHT HAVE TO PUT THAT ON MY CHRISTMAS LIST...

i pitched 1 dry pack of us-05 into a 1.054 beer, it finished at 1.012, which is what i would expect. fully controlled temp here, If it is the yeast health etc. I might have to start using WLP001, the results I've had with that have been pretty good.

first real issue with US-05 though if this is the case.