Mash temperatures

[Crusader-Rob]

Hi Everyone, as I am still coming to grips with my All Grain Setup. I have partially dialled in my Water volumes (theres still a little way to go yet). However I am trying to sort the temps out on Beersmith, as it tells me to heat my strike water to 75 deg C for a mash temp of 66.7 deg, both times i ended up with 63-64 temperature, adding 1-1.5 litres of water only raises it by about half a degree.

 I have 2 questions: 

1- how do I change the temps on beersmith to reflect the mash temperatures I'm getting so i can heat my strike water correctly and hit my mash temperatures spot on.

2-obviously a higher temperature gives more unfermentables, I tend to like my IPA's a little bit sweeter, and balance it out with hops etc. I was thinking about just heating my strike water to 80 degrees and mashing that way, then I'll probably hit a good temperature of around 69-70 degrees. is this ok?

3- what is the maximum temperature i can mash at before i start removing some bad stuff from the malt?

and finally 4- is there a ratio of unfermentables per degree of increase in temperature? i.e mashing at a certain temperature hgow much will it change my FG?

thanks all.

Rob

[Crusader-Rob]

Thanks Kelly, I didn't end up brewing yesterday, but i'll take your advice on board and hopefully I'll hit things soon.

Yeah the thinner mash had me wondering, but it seems that the temperature is more important. I'll post up my results when i get my brewing done. going to strike at 79- and see what i hit. I can always add cold water, which is easier than boiling water and mash for about 60mins or so, if i mashed for say 45-50 mins change things much, I'm sticking with 60mins, but im interested to know how much 10-15mins less will do.

[Kelly Milligan]

Sweet :)

When it comes to mash time, I think it's something like 85% of conversion happens in the first 5-10 minutes.. so reducing it from 60mins to 45 is usually no problem, however I'd be considering doing a starch conversion test with some iodine just to be sure.. 

[Druid]

I think most people consider the conversion to be over in the first 30 minutes, particularly with the quality of malts these days - I've never done an iodine test to check though I seem to hit the numbers.

I just did Tasty McDole's APA recipe though which calls for a 30 minute mash - worked fine...

[Grant R Baker]

Not sure this well help but it is a pretty good read...

http://byo.com/stories/wizard/article/section/121-mr-wizard/1637-wh...

 

It helped me deside how to approach mashing for different styles of beer.

[Crusader-Rob]

Cheers Grant.

Well I mashed yesterday after a day off work...

And well, it didn't go so well.... I heated to 80deg C, and hit 66 dead on, added 1.5lt of boiling water and made 66.7ish.

I don't know whats going on, but clearly my process isn't working too well. Nothing wen't quite to plan, i did an orange and cascade Pale ale. highhops ratio, with no hops bag, and ended up under volume this time with all the hops put in. i found that with 15litres of water in the cooler i got 8 litres out, which was under what i was expecting, and a 17.5litre sparge, , i also had a very hard out boil going, which didn't help and lots of trub(around 3litres based on the bottling bucket volume, before siphoning off this and into my primary, i ended up 1.052 with an est of 1.054, with 0.5litres underneath the traget beer volume, (wort recovery protocol, througha filter) and added 80grams of Light DME with 1 litre of boiled water, to add in.

BTW The grain had sat at Room Temp for 3-4 days, which is normally about 18-20 degrees, depending on the day.

I then wake up this morning, with the heat here in christchurch last night, my beer to be at 29degrees?!?! so its now in a cold water bath, cos i don't really fancy beer flavoured vodka. I do need better ferm temperatures, as its getting warmer, and the fridge i got off here, is not hooked up as theres no power in my garage until early next year...

Not such a good day beer wise.

any ideas? I'm a bit frustrated, after getting my notes back on my partial mash pale ale, they said close, but not quite fresh enough hops wise, , this just make a big change.

[Grant R Baker]

29c is pretty high. Drop some ice in the water and salt the water will cause it to drop in temperature faster. 

 

I got hold of a beer Refractometer so I could take gravity reading during the mash out process, thus I can hit the exact 1.06x I'm after)... exact volume is a nice to have (once you figure out you evaporation rate of your kettle and loss in mash you will get closer).. but hitting the mark gravity wise, even with a litre more or less than expected, will give you the beer you designed.

[Kelly Milligan]

Yea I second this, hitting your OG just 2 points below your target is great, and I would just ferment out the beer at that gravity :)

[Crusader-Rob]

It just sucks i cant hit my targets after 4 AG Brews! lol.

Yeah teh brews in water with some frozen milk bottles full of waer, and given the ridiculous heat today in shakyland, its just as well!!

I'm glad i hit the gravity, i tested the gravity after mash and sparge, the temp was high, but it read 1.022, whats the conversion rate for temperature adjustment? i was also having issues with my boil off, as i've had a pretty good gentle boil recently, nothing too huge, then yesterday, it just wanted to jump out of the pot.

 

Heres the recipe i used.: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/cascades-orange-pale-ale-84558/ in case you were wondering.

[Kelly Milligan]

1.022 sounds pretty low.. what temp was that at? like 60c? you can temp adjust using stuff like beersmith. I don't think it's a linear relationship though, so at 40c above calibration temp its probably several SG points off accurate. What I do is make sure I give the wort a really good mix after sparge (the heavy stuff falls to the bottom afterall..) then take a 100ml test sample. Then whack it in the fridge. By the time I hit boil and have my first addition in there its about mid 20's which is far more accurate for a hydrometer reading. Then if you're actual pre-boil grabity is a bit lower or higher than estimated you can compensate by adding more water / adding an extra 10 mins onto your boil. You can even compensate the hops a bit, if you put in a 90 min addition then find your gravity is a bit low, boil a bit extra and just shift a middle addition a few minutes closer to the end of the boil. 

A refractometer makes this super easy since a few drops cool to calibration temp in a matter of seconds :) 

[Crusader-Rob]

Yeah thats probably a good plan, thanks kelly. I'll keep trying and hopefully ill hit something soon.

[John H]

I find that if I pour my post mash hydro sample into a dinner plate it cools down pretty quick (nice large surface area) - well before I get to the boil.

[Kelly Milligan]

Awesome idea.. that'd only take a few minutes! Kinda like how your nana used to pour her tea into her saucer to cool it down before drinking it ;)