Hop differences

[Grant R Baker]

Has anyone else out the had differing results when use Imported verses NZ grown hops.

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I just sampled a brew (a blonde ale) that I have made many times before.. argh - Weak bitterness with a flavour (lemon/honey hints) gone... the only change was this time I was forced to use Import Fuggle hops instead of the normal NZ Fuggles. 

The wife and my co-brewer both said "wow.. what is missing..?"

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Actual amount of hops used in the brew had to change due to the slight difference in AA%.. but the software does that for me.

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It has to be the imported hops from NZ Hops.  It is  possible one of the malts has varied but the flavour profile that is missing I am sure came from the hops themselves.

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Any opinions or similar experiences..?  Shall I just throw these Imported Fuggle pellets away?

[Ralph]

There are big differences between hops grown in different regions and countries. NZ Cascade tastes quite different to US Cascade. UK Fuggles taste quite different to NZ Fuggles...

You just need to work with it and find the right recipe for the right flavours...

[Smiffy]

Things that I have experienced having an effect on perceived bitterness and hop flavours are:

Malt. I recently added 10% dark malt extract, and it took the edge off the hops.

Water. Water correction certainly can bring out the hops, so a change of water supply could subdue the hops.

Fermentation temperature, Warmer fermentation adding more fruity flavours can mask the hops.

If you have calculated for the same IBU with the different hops, you should have the right actual bitterness, so if the perceived bitterness is less, it suggests that it might be due to something else, but the change in flavours could still be down to the different hops.

[jt]

I suffered the same with subbing dark for medium or cara for meduim crystals.

I adjust the hops up or down now when changing the specialty grains.

Anyway, the NZ vs imported Fuggles, should you throw them away ? Certainly not. Just accept that are different and accept the change in flavour - maybe use them in a different recipe

[Grant R Baker]

Thanks....  but not sure I can keep using the Imp Fuggles. They really lacked taste and smell.

IBU was easy to calaculate to target but still seem a lot lower in the final result.

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So guess I'll treat them as completely different hop (damn it, NZ Fuggles are as hard to find as Riwaka).

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Thanks

[Dougal]

Maybe it's their age? Hop alpha acids decline over time, so you get less bitterness for the same amount of hops. There's an alpha acid loss calculator here:

http://www.brewerslair.com/index.php?p=brewhouse&d=calculators&...  

Oh, and Liberty has NZ Fuggle:

http://www.libertybrewing.co.nz/content/nz-fuggle-pellets-72aa 

[Greig McGill]

Yeah, treat them as a completely different hop because that's what they are. As Ralph said above, it's all about working with the hops, knowing them well, and using them to their strengths. Also, all hops, NZ or imported, will change fairly drastically harvest to harvest. You need to get in the habit of smelling your hops carefully, thinking about those aromas, and how they will integrate with your beer.

Thankfully, NZ hops seem to be moving to what they should always have done. Instead of naming the local hop type "NZ <insert original strain here>", they are now naming them uniquely. Remember when Riwaka and Motueka were Saaz D and B respectively? How confusing was that!? No more confusion, or expectation adjustment! :)

In other news... MAN it's been ages since I posted here.

[Pilgrim]

Welcome back Greig :-)

[Ralph]

Yup. If you happened to get a packet of old hops or ones that have been stored in a shop front window instead of a fridge then it is quite possible they have faded as Dougal mentions.

[Grant R Baker]

From the fridge and I don't think they were old.

Obviously not a unique problem. Maybe I'll work up a test brew with the new hops or their variants to get a feel for them.