25 years later I try again

[Fred Dibnah]

Hello lads and lasses

My first post and first brew so be kind!

I have just got into brewing after a long (25 year) break since I was a young lad.  My beer was known for it's ability to strip paint and make gums and teeth fall out at the first mouthful.  Here's hoping 25 years of nil further brewing experience and a change of hemisphere will help make my next batch come out slightly better.

Okay, my first foray back into beer is a Black Rock Pilsner Blonde.  I used the below ingredients.  I was advised to use a different yeast by the guy at the store, but it seems after doing a bit of reading that using S23 in summer without cooling - I never got below 20 degrees in the whole process - may make my brew somewhat fruity tasting?!  I hope he didn't lead me astray!

1kg Copper Tun Brewblend No.15
11.5g Saflager S23 yeast

Started 18th December 2012

Moved to secondary vessel 24th December 2012
SG 1014

27th December 2012
SG 1012

Anyway, the kit label says to expect an FG of 1006 but to expect around 1012 if I use "liquid brewing sugar or malt extract instead of sugar."

I have reached 1012 and will leave it for another few days before I check again. Do you think I have bottomed out or should I be looking to get towards 1006?

Cheers!

[Ralph]

I think you should leave it a few more days as it may drop a few more points yet. If you bottle too early and it ferments down lower in the bottles you will end up with gushers or bottle bombs. The Copper Tun brew blend may have had some ingredients that will make the FG higher than 1006, but without knowing the ingredients I could not say by how much.

S23 is a lager yeast and is probably meant to be left to work at about 12 to 15 degs. What temperature was your brew sitting at Fred? If much warmer than this there may be a few strange flavours to your brew! 

A lager would also usually have a period of cool storage after the fermentation to smooth the flavour out, but others here will know more about this than me as I usually brew ales.

[Fred Dibnah]

Thanks Ralph.

The brew never went below 20 degrees at it has been pretty warm these past few weeks. In fact, it probably sat around 22 to 24 as I had no way of cooling. This is why I think the lad at the LHBS may have bowled me a googly with the Saflager S23 which even said on the label that it was best run at 9 to 15. He said it wouldn't make much difference. Hmmmm.

Will the funny flavours go away/ lessen if I leave it for a few months in a cool place?

Cheers!

[Ralph]

I think the flavours will mellow if you leave it to lager (i.e. leave it for a few months somewhere cool) but it is probably a bit of the old silk purse out of a sows ear situation... If it has been fermented at around 22 to 24 I would think there will be esters and fusel alcohols which will give it fruity flavours and a hot alcohol aftertaste, even if you lager it for a while, but without tasting it you never quite know, and I have never used the S23 and so do not know how it goes.

If you want to brew a lager then you need some way to temperature control your fermentor. People do all sorts of things from keeping their fermentors in water baths to building temperature controlled cabinets to storing their fermentors in cellars or cool holes in the ground.

If you want to brew an ale then you can ferment these at 18 to 20 degs and get a good tasting beer. Use a yeast like US05 if you want a clean tasting yeast or S04 if you want an english style yeast with more fruity flavours. Usually if brewing a kit it is a good idea to grab a decent yeast as the yeast with the kit probably has not been kept in good conditions to keep the yeast alive, so the home brew shop was being sort of helpful...

[Fred Dibnah]

Thanks Ralph. I'll have to cross my fingers on this first brew then it seems.

I also have an IPA with Safale S04 and 15g of Goldings bubbling away too. It went up to 24 for a few hours as it went crazy at the start but is at a steady 19 now and has been for a few days.

I am sure I'll get there in the end even if I have to make a few dogs on the way.

Cheers!

[Scarrfie]

Fred you can use S-23 as an ale yeast and I know of one craft brewer that uses it as the house strain, but above 20°C gives me doubt about your results. Let us know how they turn out though as Ralph and I could be wrong. I have used it at 16-17°C to produce a couple of nice brews so the yeast itself is okay. I would say the same goes for S-04. A very nice yeast the has probably served me for 60% of my brews, but 18°C is probably tops for a nice beer. S-04 can be a beast alright, especially if you make a starter. I like the compact sediment though, but it has a reputation for destroying aroma hops. Sill, let us know how that goes as well.

FYI I brew in ambient but use a concrete floor that is on the south side of the house to ferment in. Diurnal is very stable although intra day can vary a little in weather extremes. Thermal mass can work to keep your temps stable an low if you find the right place. 

[Fred Dibnah]

Thanks Scarrfie and Ralph for the feedback and advice. I'll let you know if it is one for the fridge or for the pigs.

cheers lads!

[Fred Dibnah]

Ay up lads and lasses

Now's the time I'll tell you about me first two batches of beer!  Like I said, it has been a while since my last beer brewing debacle caused my old Mum's ceiling to change colour.

Thanks to good avice from Scarrfie and Ralph, the first batches turned out just grand.  Despite initial worries about Saflager S23 going off like a whippet on synthetic cannabis, the beers are going down like a treat.  My first brew - the  Black Rock Pilsner Blonde - which I was most worried about - is actually a bloody good drop now it has been in the bottle for a few months.  It has lost it's early fruitiness and has settled down nicely.  My mate who is a keen all grain brewer said that he'd give it a 7 out of 10.  I've still got some left but they are going fast.

My second brew was Black Rock IPA with Safale S04 and 15g of Goldings.  I was really happy until I tasted it.  Quite disappointing.  I say this because if you think IPA and drink it it's poor, but if you think lager then it's good.  What I'm trying to say niceley is that the Black Rock IPA is not an IPA.

I've just bottled my Mangrove Jacks Munich Lager which came with the beer kit.  I used S23 again with this one as I had a sachet going spare.  I must say, it smells far better than the previous two.  It looks quite dark compared to the Black Rock brews and fingers crossed this will be a goody.

None of the Black Rock kits went below 1010 - which is probably because of the brew blends like Ralph said.  The Munich lager stayed at 1012.

Where to next?  I like the look and sound of the Cascade kits.  Anybody got any feedback on these?  They sound yummy but are they any good?!

Cascade Golden Harvest Lager 1.7kg

Cascade Spicy Ghost Draught 1.7kg

Cascade Imperial Voyage Pale Ale 1.7kg

Cascade Chocolate Mahogany Porter 1.7kg

Cheers!

[Karl Hayes]

Hi Fred.  The Cascade Porter is a very good drop. I've not tried any of the others. My advice would be to use just table sugar with the standard yeast. The only change I'd make would be to use just half the sugar and make only 18L. Best of luck.