Anyone wanna help me put together an NZPA recipe?

[denimglen]

I'm thinking of brewing a New Zealand Pale Ale for the next batch (with all the talk of the NZ Lager in the other thread, got me thinking).

From the added styles for the SOBA comp - http://www.soba.org.nz/files/New%20Zealand%20Styles.pdf

"The style is characterised by New
Zealand and New World (i.e. not English, European or American) hops used to produce
medium to high hop bitterness, flavour, and aroma."

I've never used any of the NZ hop varieties nor had many beers with them. Limburg Hopsmacker is probably the only one and that was quite a while ago.

Any ideas of how much or which to use for aroma and flavour additions? I'd like to use Sauvin, Motueka or Riwaka or a combination of two or all three.

"New Zealand and New World pale
ales have medium body and low to medium maltiness. Low caramel character is
allowable."

Was thinking of 4.3kg Barrett Burston, 0.3kg Caramalt, and 0.1kg Crystal malt (I've used this in a couple of APA's and quite like it). And/Or the addition of a little Munich or Vienna like the yanks use in their's sometimes?

"Fruity-ester flavour and aroma should be moderate to strong. DMS should not
be evident, and diacetyl (if present) should be low and in balance."

I only have access to the popular dry yeasts at the moment but would look into a liquid strain if something better is available. Moderate to strong fruity esters make me think S-04?

And for the numbers I was thinking around -

1.045
35 IBU
8 SRM

Pretty much after an easy drinking beer with a nice assertive hop flavour and aroma without being too over the top and with just enough maltiness to balance the hops and provide a little back bone.

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks!

[denimglen]

Interersting, most of the American homebrewers say at least 2, preferably 3, max 4 - for the average ale.

I usually leave mine for about 3 weeks, haven't noticed any off flavours so far.

Bought the hops today, no Sauvin so it's Pacific Jade for bittering instead.

[Dan]

Dont trust americans!

[Dan]

At least two weeks? As far as im concerned when fermentation has finished, depending on the ale yeast usually 3-8 days,, and a day or two of rest, then racking! or if a highly floccing yeast straight to the bottle,
Lagers are a different story, some seem to benefit from being on the primary yeast for a number of weeks and some take that long to attenuate anyway.
W1968 has been mint 4-5 days in primary, into the bottle and drinking the following week! just gotta watch the Diacetyl.

[denimglen]

I should have noted the numbers I said above are for primary only, no secondary.

If you look around on homebrewtalk.com a lot of the brewers there (including award winners) favour a long - up to four weeks - primary with no secondary for ales below 1.060. The issue of autolysis has been brought up a few times but the majority says it doesn't happen in that amount of time.

I like this method (ie, I'm lazy) and until I notice any off flavours I'll stick to it - if it ain't broke, don't fix it ;-)

[Barry]

Yeah I'm with you Glen, it's the school of thought I also subscribe to. I've never secondaried, ever. But, when those Americans are saying up to 4 weeks, thats what then mean - up to. 4 weeks is the upper envelope of what you'd want to leave it for, simply because the law of diminishing returns suggests there's little to be gained from it (heck, you could be drinking it by then). A couple of weeks, 2 1/2 maybe, is plenty to scrub away acetalaldehyde and diacetal, especially if you get it a fraction warmer than fermenting temp. And if it hasn't dropped bright by then, it might not at all eh (or you might want to consider finings). And whether you bottle or keg, that's the place to store and age your beer to condition, clear and develop. Not in the fermenter.

If there's no off flavours that's awesome, you must be doing all right - in which case I wouldn't expect any off flavours. I just think it might not be so important either - again, you could be drinking it by then :)

But to repeat what Dan said, Don't trust anyone! But your own experience! :)

[denimglen]

Yeah, I understand where you're all coming from.

I usually leave it for 2.5 - 3 weeks, then chuck the fermenter in the fridge for a couple of days to help drop the last bit out, then into the keg for at least another two weeks to carbonate and condition.

This method has been working well for me so far, any less than two weeks in the keg I find it still tastes green and is just started to taste good by the end of the keg. Also the couple of days in the fridge seems to help with clarity a lot - before I started doing this I would get probably 300 - 500mL of sediment in the bottom of the keg, now I'm only getting like <50mL.

I don't plan on changing my methods anytime soon, I don't notice any off flavours (but of course that doesn't mean they're not there), I plan on entering a few beers in this years HB comp so I'll see what the experts have to tell me about my brews.

Cheers for the help everyone, will be brewing the batch tomorrow.

[denimglen]

Oh well, the batch is underway, bringing it to a boil as I type.

Wish me luck!