Astringent Ale Syndrome

[jt]

Ok, I've had some problems with astringent ales (as mentioned on the old forum)
I thought I was either
a) reciurculating badly
b) crushing too fast
c) splashing badly from the runnoff to the kettle
d) combinations of all the above

But I think I've fixed all those
The common thread is that the only affected beers have had Aussie Pale as the predominant malt (with <10% Vienna, wheat or caramalt per batch)
Beers with darker malts don't suffer at all. Beers with MO don't suffer either.

So I think that leaves me with wort ph

I had a quick look at promash along with the Wellington water specs and it looks like I could be making lots of various additions depending on the target water spec.

But before I rush off to the chemists- or invest in a ph meter, has anyone else in Welly suffered the same ?

I'd have bought some gypsum from Phil, but someone had just bought his last 4 packets

There was a suggestion from Stu about tartaric acid - Steve Nally uses 50gm per 1000 litres which would put me about 1.5gm for 30 litres

Does anyone have a rule of thumb for additions in Welly perhaps - or should I go the whole hog and test ?

[jt]

Kegged this ale last night, hope to pour a warmish, flattish pint tonight.
When I transferred to the fermenter a fortnight ago there was a big bitterness, not harsh or astringent though. And kegging last night it had calmed down a lot, still a good bitterness, slightly muting the rest of the hop flavour and the malt was nicely rounded. so far, so good.

Could still all turn to crap in the keg though ha h aha

[MrC]

Did you just add CaSO4 or did add some other salts as well?

Could still all turn to crap in the keg though

Mine only ever improve in the keg.

[jt]

Just the caso4 Mr Cherry......
Have you never had a beer that didn't improve with time in the keg?
I've probably had some that I didn't like and no amount of time improved, I just had to suffer all the way through, pint by pint :-)

Rebrewing that pale again tomorrow without adjustment, just to check, or should I add the caso4 and balance it?

[jt]

Time for an update.
I brewed a few ales, same recipe, some with adjustment (1 tsp calcium sulphate in the mash) and some without. Used 05 and Thames Valley II, with and without adjustment.
The adjusted ales initially had a stronger bitterness and I thought better malt, but slightly less late hop character. But a week or two into the keg I couldnt really tell the difference
None suffered from any astringency - which I hadn't been suffering from anyway.
Would I bother adding water adjustments again? Maybe, just for the sake of saying I'd done it ...

[Stu H]

good update! Cheers

[Sam]

Nah I don't filter. I agree with what you said though, I'd like to get some sort of water filter at some point!

[Richard Deeble]

Wellington water is mostly very soft from what I have read. This, more often than not, leads to higher than ideal mash ph's with worts that don't have much crystal or dark malts to lower the ph. I have found my beers have improved markedly by using a spreadsheet like ezwater calculator to estimate the ph and mineral contact depending on my malt bill-I generally target a ph of around 5.5 (taken at a cool temp). I generally add CaCl, CaS04 or acidulated malt depending on the type of beer I am brewing. I generally target at least 50ppm of calcium and I believe this has lead to my beers clearing better than they previously did.  I have also found that my efficiency has increased since adjusting my water around 5%.